DAN: So welcome back to another episode of the Dore Podcast, where we talk to industry leaders, innovators, local experts, shaping Ottawa's real estate and property landscape. I'm your host, Dan Dore, and today we've got a great guest. Uh, Griffin, Kozij from Kozy Landscaping slash group of companies inside Joke.

DAN: But let's, uh, yeah, for now it's cozy Landscaping, but,

GRIFFIN: landscaping.

GRIFFIN: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. More than that now. But, uh, yeah. Thank you so much for having me.

DAN: It's coming up. So Kozy specializes in skipping. Pool installations, uh, home renovations in the Ottawa region. So bringing your dream home to life with quality, uh, uh, craftsmanship and top to your service.

DAN: Uh, in this episode, we'll explore your business journey. Uh, strategies for scaling smart design, for investment, for investment properties, and the tools that, uh, Griffin uses to stay ahead of the game. So, Griffin, let's dive in. Yeah, so I always like to start these podcasts to try to get a sense, uh, Griffin, like I.

DAN: This is for entrepreneurs and you know, this is, we always like to get a sense of who you are and how you came to be. Yeah. So, so tell us about the journey that leads you into starting Cozy and where you are today. Because from when we met several years ago. Yeah. Even before the podcast, I'm going through this, I'm like, what, you do this now you do that?

DAN: You're like, exactly. Which is fantastic. So, so give, give the audience a bit of the listener, a bit of an idea of how, how you came to be. Yeah, yeah.

GRIFFIN: It, uh, would go back as far as I was the local little paperboy on the, the few streets around me and, uh, constantly every week, you know, seeing the same faces.

GRIFFIN: And they started asking me, you know, Hey, do you mind doing this outside? Do you mind raking the leaves? So I'll give you five bucks. And so that slowly morphed into, okay, I, I can make a little bit of extra money than just delivering the paper. And, uh, that morphed, kept getting bigger, and now I'm cutting 10 lawns on the street.

GRIFFIN: Um, then eventually my biology teacher in high school owned a landscaping company, so talked to him about working in the summers and did that for a few years, and eventually thought, okay, I could make way more money if I do this myself. And so that's really just how it started going from the kind of technician role into just thinking, having that dream and going from there.

DAN: Yeah. And what, so what, so. What made you like, I mean, so you started to say, okay, I can do it myself, but what does the, what did the, what did the first, the next three steps look like?

GRIFFIN: right,

DAN: Right, because that, yeah, it doesn't go from there to boom, where you're at today, like

GRIFFIN: Exactly. Like, yeah,

DAN: you bought a vehicle, you got it like you got cars.

DAN: How, what did that look like?

GRIFFIN: Yeah, so again, with that paper route, every year I was saving my money, putting a, a, I was getting GICs at the time with a little bit of money I had. And, uh, I saved all that up in the bank and, and bought a truck and just started trying to get, uh, the name out there. Started with cutting lawns and, uh.

GRIFFIN: Then doing for those same clients, pitching them, you know, we can fix up your yard a bit more. And that eventually morphed and. Eventually the lawn cutting went away and it just started doing those landscape install projects. So, um, yeah, I mean I had no business experience, background knowledge.

GRIFFIN: It was really just let's try to figure out how to get work.

DAN: Yeah, no, and that's, that's a lot of times that's the way it starts.

DAN: And obviously I always say if there, if somebody wants to work, there's always work out there.

GRIFFIN: There's work out there, right? Absolutely.

DAN: Yeah. Yeah. And the, uh, so you got a truck and then, 'cause it's so funny because I remember, uh, years ago when we started chatting, you did some work for us at Dory Property Management and uh, you're doing landscaping work and um, and I recall.

DAN: And perhaps you can clarify if, if my recollection is, is, is, is proper, but you had, you know, this most, for the most part it's seasonal work. So you were looking at taking on renovations in the, you know, in the, in the winter to try to keep the, the staff going. Exactly. And, uh, yeah,

GRIFFIN: Yeah.

GRIFFIN: The, um, I did snow removal for that. My, my boss there, uh, that I met in, uh, high school, uh, did snow removal for a few years for him and I, and I knew I didn't want my business to do that. It, it's, it's a lot of work and it's, it's hard work, but it wasn't, uh, something I wanted to take on. So I wanted something else to do in the winters.

GRIFFIN: And, uh, always did, you know, a lot of renovation work with my dad and, uh, we hired the right guys. And so we went, okay, let's, let's bring some of those aspects in. And then that's how we started our renovation side. Uh, we've grown it over the last few years. Now we have someone kind of running that division and we're running those renovations like fully year round.

GRIFFIN: It's not just that winter kind of, I would tell our clients we go inside to hibernate in the winter. Yeah. Um, but now it's a year-round division for us.

DAN: Good for you. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. 'cause I mean, obviously a lot of the guys that do what you do, the seasonal aspect of it, there's always a challenge about keeping your good people. It's huge. Yeah. How do you keep the good people, I mean the guys that work with you.

DAN: Typically, you know, if they, if they, you know, they're, they're, they're let go during the winter. The next thing you know, they may find other jobs or they do something else, or, and forbids they don't find anything else, then how do they, how do they earn a living? Right. So, yeah. So you guys have found a way to, uh, to do that and beyond.

DAN: So good for you. Yeah.

GRIFFIN: Yeah. It, it's huge. Like keeping those, uh, the staff that, or, you know, really work out like you, you want to keep them, right. Yeah. And for seasonal, uh, businesses, that's, that's a huge challenge.

DAN: Yeah. Yeah. Good for you. No, uh, that's, that's I always like hearing how you figure out the minutia and, and, and, and snow snowplowing being usually the go-to.

DAN: Yeah. But I mean, snowplowing is a different breed, obviously. 'cause it's, first of all, it's, it's equipment.

DAN: Yeah.

DAN: it's it's very intense. The insurance are through the roof. Insurance is, and you can, you never know when you're working.

GRIFFIN: Yeah. Yeah, that's a huge part of it too. You can, uh, you either want snow, you don't want snow. Right. And, uh, the insurance is a massive, massive part of it. Uh, huge, huge expense.

DAN: Yeah. And I think the, uh, I had, we did snow contracts years ago. Okay. And, you know, you could probably count, you know, and eight to 12 outings in a season. That was kind of what that was. Yeah. But you could have one where you're out for two days straight.

DAN: Or you could, you know, do a, you know, full three weeks where you don't go out. Yeah. But then you hit years where you have a ton of, of, uh, ice and pellets of whichever. Then you're salting and it's whole different ball game and, uh, ugh. Yeah. Yeah. It's not easy for sure. So, yeah. Good on you.

GRIFFIN: Yeah.

DAN: So

DAN: you began, I mean, obviously, um, I think there's always been a focus on, on higher end outdoor living spaces and.

DAN: Like how did, how does one, um, how does one look at that work and, and turn it into an investment? Like from your standpoint, you go in and, you know, you do outdoor living spaces based on what people want, but. What recommendations do you make to, to clients and say, well, you know, if you do X, Y, and Z there's more of an impact for valuation for the property.

DAN: Yeah. Because obviously that plays a big role. These services are not cheap, but then obviously they can, you can have a significant return on the value of the property. So what, what, you know, what, what does that, what, what does that look like when somebody, uh, is embarking on that journey with you?

GRIFFIN: Yeah, I, I think a good part of it is doing the essentials.

GRIFFIN: You, you need a good driveway, you need a good walkway, some sort of space in the back for entertainment. A lot of that extra stuff. Sometimes it's not really the best investment. It, it's, sometimes I think it's, you know, it's those want to haves and that's great for when you're there, but I think the right way to go about, it's probably assuming that you're not gonna get that money back for some of those things.

GRIFFIN: Right. I

GRIFFIN: think that's the best way to do it. Right. It's. I'm doing this fire pit and the big massive Pergo, you gotta be doing that for you, not thinking down the road that you're gonna get some money back for that. Okay. I, I think, um, and what we've seen, especially with swimming pools lately. They're a major, major investment and what I've seen, uh, is it may not be getting that full, you know, back in the next, if you're selling five, 10 years.

GRIFFIN: Mm-hmm. We had, uh, on an average year, we get about two to three inquiries

GRIFFIN: For in-ground pool.

GRIFFIN: uh, like filling in like demolition.

GRIFFIN: This

GRIFFIN: year we got 25 leads for that. What? Just, we don't advertise it, we don't say anything on our website, anything for it. We had 25 people call us and they're massive jobs too, just to fill in.

GRIFFIN: Yeah. Decommission the pool. If that pool's 30, 40 years old, it's probably just as much to fill it in than it was to get the pool 30, 40 years

GRIFFIN: old. Oh, I believe it. I believe it.

GRIFFIN: it's um, that investment that's gotta be for you, I think. Yeah. Not necessarily just, uh, in terms of real estate, but to go back to the question.

GRIFFIN: Yeah. Uh, you do, you need like a good walkway, a good patio, and like. Putting the money in to make sure it's well built and the foundation's there.

GRIFFIN: Mm-hmm.

GRIFFIN: There's a big difference between mo most, most people can make your interlock look nice on top. Yep. But if you don't have a base under it, you really didn't buy much.

DAN: A

DAN: couple years. And you're all, it's all going wonky and we have to redo it, so.

GRIFFIN: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No,

DAN: that's, uh, that, and I love that you're saying that because in the world of real estate, in many cases, uh, you know, somebody wants to sell their house and they have a pool and you know, they say, oh, you know, is this, is this worth more with the pool than it depends on the buyer.

DAN: Exactly. If somebody wants a pool, then they may see value in the fact that you have a pool. But if somebody doesn't want a pool, that actually could be a deterrent Yeah. To, to buy your house. Exactly. So, and, and obviously what you just pointed out there, just the cost of decommissioning that pool. It's so substantial that, you know, as you mentioned at, at, at the forefront, it's really an, it is really a, a spend that you're doing because you want that.

DAN: Yeah. Not because you're not doing it to get a return on investment or, you know, increase the value of the property. Yeah. So, uh, yeah. So having the basics, I think is what, based on what you're saying, having the basics and having a good solid foundation are, are, are, are the, the types of work that would get the best to bang for your buck.

DAN: Yeah. Type of deal. So

GRIFFIN: that's your investment side. Everything else, I think that's, that's for you. Yeah. Yeah.

DAN: One of the things too with uh, outdoor living spaces and doing this type of work is, is, and I'll speak for myself 'cause I I was, anytime I do any of that, I want something that's low maintenance. Yes.

DAN: You did work for me. You did. You did. We take out, we took out a pool at my house many years ago. Yep. Um, and you came in and redid the backyard. Exactly. And um. I just wanted low maintenance. Like, I mean, I didn't want to have to, to to do more because it's so busy. We have a family and so on. So somebody who's, you know, who's, who's hiring you or asking you to come in and give you recommendations, what tips would you give them in terms of the work that they, they should be doing to keep, to keep the maintenance low?

GRIFFIN: Yeah. In terms of landscaping, there's, there are hardscape areas and then there's the softscape areas. So your hardscapes, your interlock, uh, turf, uh, if you're doing artificial turf, it can kind of be categorized as hardscape. And then your softscape, meaning your gardens and your grass. A lot of people think, like, a lot of people are really adverse, don't like cutting grass.

GRIFFIN: And so my mindset kind of is if you're pulling out the lawnmower and you got the work to do. Doing say half your lawn in a garden

GRIFFIN: Isn't

GRIFFIN: gonna necessarily save you time 'cause you still have to,

DAN: it's worse.

GRIFFIN: You, you still have to take out that mower.

GRIFFIN: Yeah. Yeah.

GRIFFIN: what I tell people is, is like you're still taking out the mower.

GRIFFIN: Yeah. You know, keep as much lawn as you possibly can. 'cause that's realistically, that's easier to maintain than, than doing a garden. No doubt. If you have a garden, you can do your geo textile and your mulch and everything, but everyone asks for a no maintenance or, or low maintenance garden. It just doesn't

GRIFFIN: exist.

GRIFFIN: That's right. That's right. Yeah. There's still a maintenance aspect to it. Yeah, that is, that is tough to

GRIFFIN: Yeah. And, and plants, plants are plants. They, they need care. They, uh, you know, planting native species and that's becoming more and more popular, which is great. So it's planting the plants that are designed over time to be in this area.

GRIFFIN: They, they survive the best over, you know, things that are brought in

DAN: species. Huh. That's interesting.

GRIFFIN: Yeah. So, um. So

GRIFFIN: So what, what is that? Sorry, pardon

GRIFFIN: My ignorance Uh, basically meeting, uh, if you go for a walk in the Gatineau park uh, park and everything. Yeah. What is actually just living and, and growing in that area, planting those types of plants in, in your

GRIFFIN: Ah, okay.

DAN: Okay.

GRIFFIN: So, um, yeah. Versus in most garden centers will have like a native plant section that's kind of separate from everything else because it is a growing, uh. Kind of trend that's out

DAN: And do those tend to be less maintenance or about the same?

GRIFFIN: Less maintenance and they're, they're used to our weather

GRIFFIN: conditions.

GRIFFIN: Okay.

GRIFFIN: Right. They're really, really acclimatized to the zone that we're in.

DAN: Okay. So you, yeah. So you're not worried about getting them dying prematurely, or,

GRIFFIN: exactly, yeah. And they're, they're also, they're, they're better at giving back to the, like the natural ecosystem. Right. So they're pollinators and insects and birds and everything that's in our area.

GRIFFIN: Are, are accustomed to those types of plants, so, huh, interesting. Okay. Yeah. So it helps with maintenance and then, uh, yeah, like I said, p uh, uh, keeping grass I think is good. I, if you're pulling out the lawnmower, whether you got 10 square feet or 20 or a hundred, you're still pulling out that lawn mower, so

DAN: That's right. Yeah. And as you mentioned, I mean, mowing lawn as opposed to de weeding and manicuring your, your, your, your plants is not the same. Exactly. Attention to details, so Yeah. Yeah.

GRIFFIN: Yeah. And then with the interlock stone, uh, the polymeric sand, which is what goes in between all the stones. Yeah. That's come a long way in the last, uh, you know, a little while in terms of now the products that are used last way longer.

GRIFFIN: Um, you see old driveways that are interlocked and it's just weeds everywhere. Yeah. Uh, the sand, the, the joint filler that used to be used was pretty much just sand. Mm. So that's why you get the weeds and it's, uh, a lot to clean it all out and, you know, reset it with the newer material. But once that's done, it, it's much more lower

DAN: Okay. Okay. Yeah. All right. Good to know. Um, and then the, you know, when, when somebody's looking at doing some work in, at the property, you know, it's, and I mean, I'll speak for, for, for people who invest in real estate, in many cases we want. You know, low maintenance, clearly.

DAN: Yeah. Uh, 'cause in most cases the tenants don't pay as much attention to the outdoor spaces as some, you know, some owners would, would like. Definitely. Uh, so you're trying to keep the low maintenance, but then it also is a balancing of like, how do you, from a budget, budget standpoint, like a big as bang for the buck.

DAN: So if somebody's looking at doing work around the house, they want to, you know, uh, they wanna redo their walkway. Uh, they wanna redo, uh, you know, their, their there, the stairs or the, the back space or whichever. Um, in terms, and since somebody wants, you know, to be budget friendly as opposed to, you know, I want to go ahead and I'm gonna be living here for 10 years.

DAN: I don't care. Yeah. Um, so what, what, what recommendations would you make for somebody to, to remain budget friendly, but still get something that's gonna last and, uh, and, and stay, uh, you know, fair, fairly low maintenance.

GRIFFIN: Yeah. With, with a lot of what we do, landscaping, it's expensive. Yeah. And it is like I was kind of talking about earlier.

GRIFFIN: In a lot of ways, sometimes it's a luxury service. Okay. Realistically, yeah. Um, again, there's the, the essentials and then there's like the, the nice to haves. Yeah. Um, with. With that, like a big area that's always kind of a, a sore point for a lot of people is the area between two homes.

GRIFFIN: So you have say six, eight, maybe 10 feet between the two houses and sometimes there's a walkway or it's just grass and, and people don't want it to be grass, so they do like the river wash stone. Um, and with the nice geotextile barrier and everything, it's gonna last for a few years. But you will eventually get weeds because the seeds are just simply falling from the sky on

GRIFFIN: Mm.

GRIFFIN: And then we, and we've seen it many, many times, a, a tenant may not be be looking at that side of the yard if it's, they don't use it to, to go to the backyard.

GRIFFIN: Mm-hmm.

GRIFFIN: Let's say, so it then becomes full of weeds and then it can get to a point where pulling the weeds isn't enough. All that river wash has to come out.

GRIFFIN: Yeah.

GRIFFIN: So we, we've started trying to talk people away from doing that. Um, and going, if, if it's an area that, you know, there's no walkway, maybe it's the walkways on the other side of the house, uh, to get to the back, just going with like some hostas or ferns or something that's, you can plant like a set it and forget it and just kind of let that place, uh, area in the property take its own course.

GRIFFIN: Mm-hmm.

GRIFFIN: Um,

GRIFFIN: so that's a pretty low cost option too, is just, you know, throwing a few plants in. Okay. Um. And then the rest. So one of the, the products, uh, in terms of interlock is going more towards like a larger format stone. And, uh, the nice thing about that is, again, it's less, uh, joints, so less potential for weeds and, and everything to grow through.

DAN: Okay.

DAN: Yeah. Uh, that's a good point. Yeah. And when, so to come back on your river wash stone, you know, if you get weeds coming in and obviously you get to a point where you're like, okay, this is crazy. Um, so what would be the, the process typically you, you'd remove the, the, the, the stones. You remove your, your, your what, what, what, what those steps.

DAN: I mean, I'm assuming you have to, to, to take everything out. Restart, and then you put the stones back in.

GRIFFIN: So it depends. Like we, we've seen river wash stone that hasn't been touched or maintained in 10 years and it's had leaves, you know, fall on it over winter and start to degrade. You get to a point where that geotextile that just had river wash on it now has like two inches of soil mixed in, right?

GRIFFIN: Because everything's just been decomposing over time at that point. Like if, if it's a homeowner doing it and your time is free, you can take the river wash, you know, put it on the driveway, be hosing it, cleaning it down.

GRIFFIN: out.

GRIFFIN: Yeah. by stone cleaning every stone.

GRIFFIN: But, uh, you know, to be paying a company to do that, it's very labor intensive.

GRIFFIN: Yeah. Yeah. So when we come into situations like that, it, it's okay. Do we just, you know, bring it, it'll be used as clean, fill on another property or infill lot or whatever, and uh, you know, bring in just new river wash often. Depending on how long it's been unkept for. Yeah. That's your cheaper option.

DAN: So it becomes more of a labor efficiency type, uh, work as opposed to uh, yeah.

DAN: Trying to, yeah. To maintain that. 'cause they clean cleaning, river wash that's been un unattended to for several years. Yeah.

GRIFFIN: Yeah. It's a lot of work.

DAN: Uh. Yeah, that could be, uh, that could be rough. That's, uh, yeah, good point. Um, and we read on your website too that obviously you guys, and we've seen that firsthand, that, you know, you emphasize quality control in the work that you do, uh, you know, on the c certified trades that you bring on, on, on, uh, on site.

DAN: And, uh, you know, and you have systems and frameworks that, that, that's always helped you continue to grow. And obviously for the last few years we've seen you grow. Um, so what, what would you, what? Like, what are those processes or new frameworks that you brought in that have helped you grow in the way that you have?

DAN: Is it, is it technology? Is it CRM? Is it a third party

GRIFFIN: Yeah.

DAN: ea? Like what, what, what does that look like for you?

GRIFFIN: Yeah, definitely a, a mixture. Um, so we're using some really nice CRMs now and things like, and softwares for estimating, um, that.

GRIFFIN: Help, uh, us reduce a lot of time and effort. Mm. And, and keep us organized.

GRIFFIN: And then there's, I mean, the whole AI aspect of things that are making things a little bit faster and

DAN: Yeah.

GRIFFIN: very confusing and learning things every day for that. Yeah. But, uh.

GRIFFIN: uh,

GRIFFIN: yeah.

GRIFFIN: It's realizing that you need processes, um, to, to grow and to stay consistent. Yeah. Uh, like you kind of talked about starting the business, you have a, a technician type mindset.

GRIFFIN: Like I went from, I'm cutting lawns to now. Running a business that cuts lawns in those first years, you're still the one doing it or however long it takes you, but you need to realize that you need to pull yourself out of it and create that framework and those systems to get other people to do

GRIFFIN: Mm-hmm. And how, and so, so those frameworks, like for us at Dory Property Management, that that framework looks, we, we use a HubSpot CRM and, and the website runs off of it and the intake forms and all that.

DAN: So. Um, and then obviously when it comes to phones, it's interesting you say that 'cause we had a gentleman, um, uh, come in on the podcast, uh, from, uh, Scarlet Nova that offers fractional AI services. And we actually, we actually hired him and we're meeting him this week, uh, about taking advantage of certain ai, um, uh, certain ai, uh, offerings that, that, that may benefit us.

DAN: Um, and then, and so for you. When you mention AI is, is like, so if somebody calls your firm, is that like, how does that handle, is still somebody answering? Is it ai, is it a third party? How, how, what does that look like for you?

GRIFFIN: Yeah, still us answering it. So it's myself and, uh, an assistant, uh, doing that. Um, from there we've got quite a few kind of, not AI, but automations in terms of, um, you know, inquiry comes in. You know, it's all added into our CRM. It, you know, everyone's info goes all over the place.

GRIFFIN: We're not entering all that data, uh, all the time anymore, but, uh. We set up a, a quick virtual consult, so it's, uh, you know, a phone call just to learn more about the project someone has. And, uh, we tell 'em about a bit more about what we do.

DAN: So when you say virtual consult, you, you mean you're not on site yet? Not on site yet.

GRIFFIN: Not on site

DAN: is really just a call or a virtual call about what, what they're calling about.

GRIFFIN: What they're calling about. Good for you. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So we've, we've,

DAN: like, is that virtual,

DAN: uh.

DAN: does that, is that involve them showing, giving you pictures or what they're looking for?

DAN: It's really just a verbal.

GRIFFIN: yeah.

GRIFFIN: So it, it depends on the project. Um, but, uh, yeah, usually, especially with landscaping, Google Maps, we can see someone's property very quickly and, and very well. So with that, and then some photos for, for most projects, we're able to. You know, then jump on a call, whether it's a Zoom call or virtual or video call or a phone call and, uh, talk through their project, but also to tell them what to expect the next steps to be.

GRIFFIN: Okay. Um, because, you know, as, as most of our inquiries come in through our website, not everyone's reading a full website in

GRIFFIN: No doubt, no

GRIFFIN: going to that contact form and, and sending some info. So, um,

DAN: I'm curious, uh, see if it, it jives with us because it's, it's interesting that I'm hearing you say this.

DAN: So this virtual component of doing that virtual call before going on site. If you go on site, because obviously you can have that discussion and there's, it doesn't connect. Exactly. So when did that start for you?

GRIFFIN: So we kind of started doing that last year and we really implemented it this year, like, um,

DAN: I think it's brilliant. Yeah. I think it's brilliant. Yeah.

GRIFFIN: A massive, uh, part of my especially spring is just gonna consults. Mm.

DAN: Mm. Like virtual or actually on site.

GRIFFIN: so that was back when I was doing on site and I'm driving, you know, four hours a day like. Inside of Ottawa, I know to go to all these different houses. Yeah. And sometimes you meet with someone.

GRIFFIN: And, you know, instantly, like, this isn't a job for us and you've, you've wasted your time, but you've also wasted that client's time. Um, so doing that virtual column, we've had really good feedback. Mm-hmm. We weren't sure, you know, we we're kind of taking that leap of faith doing it.

DAN: What was the trigger to try that?

GRIFFIN: Uh, the trigger to try it was last year, um, who was helping in the office and did a lot of our design work. He wanted to do something new, so he moved on in the fall and. Being, uh, and we can talk about Mike Kel

GRIFFIN: later, but Yeah, yeah, yeah.

GRIFFIN: Absolutely. Yeah. Um, yeah, being that bottleneck, uh, and, and, and that kind of mindset, I was like, I can do his job and my job, it'll be fine.

GRIFFIN: It'll still work. And I was a huge bottleneck for the business. This year

GRIFFIN: same.

DAN: same. It's crazy. We're all in the same boat. We're all in the same boat.

GRIFFIN: Yeah. So it, it took a, finally hiring a, a, a new admin who, who's been fantastic for the business, and I, I'm now. Not as big of a bottleneck. Yeah. Um, but this spring I was doing those two, basically two people's full-time jobs and I was just, uh, not able to keep up.

DAN: What made you realize that you were the bottleneck?

GRIFFIN: Uh, just that Oh, I knew, like I knew the whole time. People know,

GRIFFIN: know and some people don't know, and then they don't, they, you know, it's, it's interesting how some everybody comes to that realization differently.

DAN: Yeah. It was, uh, yeah.

GRIFFIN: Yeah. No,

DAN: I've been called a bottleneck more times than I'd like to admit, so,

GRIFFIN: Yeah. Just, just, yeah. Coming into that realization, um. And, uh, and learning about business and everything. You're like, not, you don't have to do everything. Right. And, and like Yeah. Who, who do you think you are to think everything should go through you?

DAN: Exactly. We're all the same. Eh? Yeah. That's, it's, but I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm happy to hear you say that because a lot of times people either don't realize that or, um, they just, they, they, they don't care. They just want to be that, and then you can't, you can't grow, you can't scale. You can't do anything. Right.

GRIFFIN: Exactly. It

DAN: was interesting when we adopted virtual, it's so funny. Virtual calls. I remember there's a gentleman I was dealing with in 2019 and, uh, anyways, we, we were doing some consultancy work. And he wanted to do virtual call, and I bucked so hard 'cause I'm like, no, no, no. If I can't meet your face to face, like, forget it.

DAN: And that was my attitude. Like, and uh, I, I, 'cause I'm big on relationships, I like to meet people, try to get an understanding of, you know, really right fit. This is how can I help you, how can you help me? And that type of stuff. So finally, you know, uh, I got to, to, to introduce, you know, this relationship, you know, face to face.

DAN: Um, but then COVID hit.

GRIFFIN: Yeah.

DAN: And then all of a sudden in property management, we found ourselves in a position where we were considered an an essential service. 'cause there's people moving in and out of units and there's emergency calls. You need to deal with it. Yeah. But you wanna be safe and how do you keep people safe?

DAN: Not just us, but the people that live in the properties and the vendors and all that. So it forced us. To either do virtual calls, virtual everything. Yeah, virtual showings. So somebody wanted to see a house. We'd be like, Hey, we take our iPhones, we go at the house and we do, you know, we show you the house live.

DAN: What do you want to see? As opposed to meeting them on site and then to move in, move out. All of a sudden we used to meet people, but then all of a sudden you're like, oh. How are we gonna do that? So it'd be be done so-called virtually where somebody would go on site, but then we put a system in place to exchange keys where there was nobody talking or nobody meeting face to face.

DAN: Yeah. But COVID for, for us, was the, and then we adopted the electronic signatures and all these good things to that. We, listen, I would've been the one stopping it, right? Because I believed in the relationship and, but then COVID kind of pushed, pushed us to say, well, you gotta operate. So if you don't make use of these technologies, then you're gonna suffer.

DAN: Exactly. But we, thankfully, the team, we've embraced it and we've never let go then because it becomes so much more efficient. So I can put myself in your shoes. If you got 4, 5, 6 quotes to do today and you're able to get on virtual calls. There's no traffic.

GRIFFIN: Yeah. Right. Yeah.

DAN: there no potential to break down the, you know, vehicle usage and you, you hit it earlier too, whereas you can meet somebody and then realize this is not for you or they are not that, that, you know, it doesn't work.

DAN: Yeah. That you could have resolved that in a virtual call that could have taken 15 minutes as opposed to, you know, you investing two hours in gas and time in everybody's time. Right.

GRIFFIN: So, exactly. It's

DAN: good on you. That's awesome. It's,

GRIFFIN: Yeah, it's, it's been a really good change for us and, and with it too, is. You know, we, in our virtual calendar, like someone could book, you know, later in the day with us, versus oftentimes if it's an in-person quote. Uh, you know, it might be a few days out, so you're hitting that customer and getting through the process a lot faster.

GRIFFIN: Yeah. Um, a lot of times if we are, um, you know, it's the right client, right project, everything works out from that virtual call, we're then gonna go in, in person and everything, but you're checking a lot of those boxes before having to do that.

DAN: No doubt. Yeah, no doubt. And when, and, and you kind of hit it before too, where you're like, I don't know if, if how people are gonna take this, but I think from a standpoint of the other person knowing before they commit to anything, uh, that they can, oh, like who am I gonna deal with? How are, you know, what kind of discussion?

DAN: And as you mentioned earlier. Not everybody will go through a website and read everything and get a full understanding of what that, what, what it involves, and deposits and expectations and timeframes and all that good stuff. Exactly. So for you to be able to kind of iron that out before you meet them on site is, uh, is a big, uh, is a big stumbling block to move out of the way.

DAN: And heaven forbids it does, it doesn't work. Then, you know, you didn't, you didn't drive, you didn't do anything. So good on you. The um. And then you, you talked a bit about ai. Is there any AI component that happens after the fact, or is it, I mean, the quotations, obviously somebody has to go on site, but like

GRIFFIN: Yeah. Uh, nothing right now. Okay. Uh, we're actually working, my brother-in-law's doing, uh, very similar to you said like a fractional, uh, yeah. Ai. So he's, he's working on that kind of stuff right now.

GRIFFIN: He has his level, uh, his knowledge level of AI is Yeah. Way above mine. Yeah. And, uh, so we're working on something right now. There's a lot of websites out there that you can, like, you know, design your landscaping and stuff like that. Yes. Yeah. Um, so we're, we're trying to embrace that and incorporate that into our website, but it'll help you to not only design, but to then it's giving like a ballpark price using our products, our kind of projections.

GRIFFIN: Mm-hmm. So our clients can visualize their space. Um. With the products that are available. 'cause a lot of those AI things, uh, you can see something really nice, but you're like, okay, well that's porcelain. And like, that's not gonna work. That's a palm tree in your front yard. You're not gonna have that here.

GRIFFIN: Florida yet.

GRIFFIN: Yeah. Yeah.

DAN: yeah. So,

GRIFFIN: yeah, we're, we're trying to figure out, uh, and make it so that it's, you know, actual products that we use. Mm-hmm. And then giving that price estimation so they can get a ballpark price before even talking to anybody.

GRIFFIN: Good for

GRIFFIN: you. Which should, I think, be really cool for people.

DAN: Yeah. It's funny that you say that.

DAN: One of the things that we had noticed in the property management company when we were dealing with new investor clients, obviously, you know, one of the main questions was, you know, can you serve this type of property and what are the costs? Yeah. And it's, it's. Every time, we always kind of wanna get a sense of what, where they are on that, that type of stuff.

DAN: Before you answer that, because sometimes you're like, ah, this doesn't work for us, or maybe we're not the right fit, or whichever. So what we did as, you know, in, in some somewhat similar to what you did, is we set up a system in on our website where somebody can just request a quote and it asked them basic questions, first of all about the location, make sure this is a location we can serve, type of properties, how many doors, that type of stuff, and then it submits them a quote that's generic.

DAN: That they can this, this approximately what this would look like. Yeah. And then they can, you know, if you want to bring it out to the next step, have a discussion, great. We can have a discussion if not, and no harm done and nobody's wasted any time doing that. Right. Which is huge. Like for you it's always that this is always the case where with, we deal with a lot of contractors, but it's one thing to send somebody on a job and actually do the work.

DAN: And somebody to se send somebody on a job to look at quoting and potentially and doing that because that there's no, there's no money, there's no, like, you know, the person that's doing that. If, if they're the ones doing the work and doing that, then every second day they're not, they're not getting paid.

GRIFFIN: Exactly. Right. So if you can try to figure out a way to minimize that, that time, and then make time, make sure that every time somebody goes on site, they're actually making something happen. Like for you as a business owner, those are, those are huge, huge, uh. Uh, friction points that you can remove that makes you significantly more productive.

DAN: So, yeah. Good for you. Yeah. Yeah. Good for you. So that's, uh, I look forward to seeing that, uh, that website.

GRIFFIN: Yeah. Yeah. It's, uh, it's coming together. Pretty cool.

GRIFFIN: Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Good stuff. The, um. So, uh, one of the questions I always like to ask is, um, I mean, obviously we deal, you know, mostly with the investor space, so maybe we can speak to that, uh, specifically, but when somebody reaches out to you, you know, somebody like us that owns rental properties and investment properties, we reach out to you.

DAN: What, what do you, what do you see as the more, the most common mistakes that we would make in requesting your services? Is it, you know, is it we're requesting the wrong work or the wrong product, wrong timeframe. Like what, what, what do you, what do you see as, uh. If I could tell 'em they should do this or that.

DAN: Like what, what, what, what suggestions would you make to, to, to people like us?

GRIFFIN: Yeah. Should I say Dory doesn't make any

DAN: No. Yeah. But then they know we paid a lot of money to say that. There you go. Yeah.

GRIFFIN: Um, in terms of landscaping, like the, the biggest mistake I, we kind of mentioned it earlier, is I would say the, the river wash. We see it so many times and just like, oh, we don't wanna maintain areas like landscaping needs maintenance. Right. Whether it's lawns. Interlock

GRIFFIN: good point. Yep.

GRIFFIN: especially.

GRIFFIN: Yeah. Everything needs maintenance. Yeah. And uh, um, I think setting that expectation with tenants of saying like, you know, here's the property. This is kind of, I, I don't know if, if setting sort of expectations for that is, is possible. Mm-hmm. Because you do see, you see properties that are beautifully maintained.

GRIFFIN: And then there there's some, um, that we had gone into. Uh, for example, we did a project in my first year. Uh, we were talking about, you know, right project, right client. I didn't know how to say no in, in my first year. So

DAN: we've all learned about that yet. Yeah. Yeah.

GRIFFIN: Like we went into a backyard. Their dog had, they hadn't cleaned up after the dog in years.

GRIFFIN: And, uh, we did a project for them that was very. Interesting in terms of layout. Yeah,

GRIFFIN: Yeah.

GRIFFIN: Well it was first thing in the spring too, so, yeah. Muddy. Muddy. Um, but like interesting layout, interesting. Like everything, like now I, you know, have the experience to say like, no, don't, don't, don't do that. That's right.

GRIFFIN: But we did it. And the last day he's super happy. He is giving us the check. He goes, the landlord's gonna love this once I show him. And I thought.

GRIFFIN: You don't own this property.

GRIFFIN: Oh, And he did, like, he, you know, he spent a good amount of money doing like really interesting things to the property. And I was like really taken aback by that.

GRIFFIN: I was like, ah, I didn't know anyone would ever consider doing this. And they don't own it. It's uncommon. Yeah. Yeah. It was a big surprise. And, uh, yeah, really, really taken back by that.

DAN: Yeah. I would say in, in most cases, uh,

DAN: we don't want to generalize, but the vast majority of people who rent properties don't expect to have. Uh, a significant responsibility to obtain, you know, to maintaining a, you know, an extravagant landscape.

DAN: Yeah. So we always advise, you know, when somebody is taking on a property or thinking of doing projects to, you know, better the exterior to keep in mind, to keep, you know, as you mentioned earlier, perhaps more grass, less plants type of deal. Yeah. Um, and low maintenance, just because the reality is, is that.

DAN: A lot of times when people, they look at it, when they see it, it's nice. They love. It's so beautiful. It's great, but they don't realize the amount of work that's involved in maintaining it. Right? Yeah. So, so when you have, uh, especially for investment properties, you try to keep it as low maintenance as possible.

DAN: Unless, unless you know, you have this, this, you know, this need or inclination to. To, to go over overboard, which, which is typically not something that we would do in investment properties. But, uh, yeah. So I can see, uh, it's funny you mentioned that about the, uh, you know, pets and defecation and all that, but I, I, funny the other day, I, I saw this is because, uh, I just laughed because it, but there's a company that offers.

DAN: Services just to pick up poop. Yes. And I'm like, wow, that's a business. Okay. I guess it's more common than, than, than, but their business is to pick up poop. Yeah. And I'm like, wow. Wow. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

GRIFFIN: It's interesting 'cause yeah, like yeah. You know, with doing lawns, you know, the cost and the travel time of going, you know, from job to job and to think that.

GRIFFIN: I don't know how much people are paying for that, but just to pick up poop is,

DAN: yeah. No, no. Listen, I, I was, I, I just listen.

GRIFFIN: just, yeah. But, but yeah, it's, it's a whole business. I

DAN: think everything's funny. But that I thought really funny.

GRIFFIN: Yeah. I was like,

DAN: Yeah. I thought, I'm like, wow is a business. You can do that. That's kind of cool.

GRIFFIN: Yeah.

DAN: It is the demand for everything.

DAN: So that's, yeah. That's good. Um, one of the things that I, that we, that we, uh, that we saw is also is, uh, one of the top voices you listen to or books you've read is from Mike Mitz. Yeah. And I laugh 'cause I, I read the book Prophet First as well. You mentioned clockwork. I haven't, I haven't, uh, read it, but, uh, tell me a bit about that.

DAN: How, how, how do you get to know him and how did you apply the stuff in his books?

GRIFFIN: Yeah, so I, I'm not the biggest reader, but I'm a big audible guy. Mm-hmm. Uh, especially, you know, driving around all day, going to all those consults for, for years, uh, just constantly listening to podcasts, listening to audio books, and just stumbled upon Mike Mcal and.

GRIFFIN: I think Profit First was the first one I listened to. Yeah. And then he, he's got like six or eight books. Okay. And, and they're all fantastic. Yeah. They're,

DAN: easy reads as well. Yeah. Yeah. They're pretty like for people, entrepreneurs, you, you appreciate that, what's in it for sure.

GRIFFIN: Yeah. And he's, uh, like he, he, for the audio books, he reads them himself.

GRIFFIN: He has, like, he's constantly going on tangents and stuff like that, Aren in the book. So it is really good to

GRIFFIN: listen to, hence the reason why I put a timer here. Right. I mentioned at the beginning, Mike says, Dan, you gotta keep, gotta keep it tight. But yeah, sorry.

DAN: Yeah.

GRIFFIN: So, uh, yeah, clockwork was a big one and it was realizing, um, it's, it's about making your business run like clockwork without you.

GRIFFIN: realizing

GRIFFIN: a lot of things, if you're involved in. Way too many things. Your, your business isn't gonna be smooth and operating and efficient and, you know, making money and your clients may not be the happiest. Yeah. Um, and so, uh, yeah, it, it's about learning how you're the bottleneck and how the steps to, to remove yourself And to, uh, and to grow your business really. Um, and so, and it, it's very. I think easy to get caught up in it, uh, in terms of just no doubt. Yeah, because, because you, you just, you take on, oh yeah, I, I've done this before. I can do it. And then realizing, okay, well there's like so many tasks I'm supposed to be maintaining right now.

GRIFFIN: And, uh, like this spring again, I was kind of doing like two people's jobs and just. I was in it and I was just like, okay, if I keep my head down, just go, I'll be able to get out, you know, see, see the light on the other, see it on the other end. And, uh, just wasn't able to, like, I was just, I was becoming such a big bottleneck.

GRIFFIN: Interesting.

GRIFFIN: And, uh, so. It, uh, yeah, hiring I needed to hire was, was number one. And, uh, and then, you know, getting back into the groove with all those systems that we had and, uh, you know, removing yourself from, especially those like day-to-day tasks that's, uh, so, uh, yeah. And then, yeah, profit First is a fantastic book as well.

DAN: Yeah. Profit First. I, I haven't read the other one. I wrote, I read the One for Profit first several years ago. Now. The, a couple of things that came to mind is obviously he had built several businesses, but he's always, he. You know, a lot of money's turning tons of money, but there's no, there's no money at the end.

DAN: Yeah. He would only make money when he would sell the business. And, uh, I guess one of them went sideways and, you know, he had money problems and his daughter opened his piggy bank and offered him money. Yeah. And how, how that, you know, how crazy that was for him to go through to go through that. Yeah. And in realizing that, you know, reinvesting in your company.

DAN: Is, is is kind of a lazy way to look at it because you, you're, you're, you're not paying attention to what's happening, right? Yeah. So it's, uh, and I like, there's a concept. I think there's a concept where you, kind of like you, when, when you go through a profit and loss, you, you essentially take, you know, a jail item as that's a profit that, that, that needs to happen.

DAN: Everything else comes afterwards, all your expenses comes afterwards. You treat it. Instead of putting your profit at the end, you put it at the beginning and then you, you, you use the rest of your expenses. When I saw, I thought it was a really good way to, to look at it. Yeah. I actually, it actually made me make some changes when I read the book.

DAN: I'm like, that's interesting to, to, to think about. Yeah,

GRIFFIN: definitely. Yeah. It's a whole different mindset, like paradigm shift in terms of thinking about money and, and your finances for your business. Yeah. Yeah. Good for.

GRIFFIN: for you. Uh,

GRIFFIN: I remember 'cause again, starting zero business knowledge experience, I brought my, uh, everything to my accountant for the first time and I was like, oh, you have some profit.

GRIFFIN: And I'm like. But did you see the bank? The bank's empty. So how do I have profit?

GRIFFIN: Well, that's a, that's a common thing. Yeah. Right? Because your profit's attached in the inventory or your, your vehicles or you know, you've paid down something, but you're like, I have no money, but I have, I'm, you know, I'm asset rich and cash poor.

GRIFFIN: Exactly right. So, uh,

GRIFFIN: uh, yeah,

GRIFFIN: yeah. We're working with a, we have a, a, a fractional CFO now. Okay, good for you.

GRIFFIN: Okay, good for you. And

GRIFFIN: huge for

DAN: Is that new? Yeah.

GRIFFIN: Yeah. That's new. December

GRIFFIN: Who, who is that? Who, who was he

GRIFFIN: Uh, his name is Willed

GRIFFIN: Okay. Okay.

GRIFFIN: Um, he's in Ottawa. Nice. He's fantastic. Okay. It's really, really changed things for

GRIFFIN: What, what role does he play in the, in the realm of, he's obviously not doing bookkeeping if he's,

GRIFFIN: Yeah. Not doing bookkeeping. Our bookkeeper, he works directly with our bookkeeper. Sure. And, uh, so they send him all the reports. We sit down. Look at cash flow. Mm. And that's his biggest thing is he's like, what Dr.

GRIFFIN: What's gonna drive your business is not what your profit is, it's what your cash flow

GRIFFIN: is. Right,

GRIFFIN: So, uh, we've been working with him and it's, it's been fantastic for us.

DAN: Yeah. When you can recognize the difference between net worth and cash flow and what it really does, and it's funny, a a, a gentleman, a successful businessman, I've been talked for years and he, at one point he says, you know, my, he says his wife would call it.

DAN: You know, 'cause he would always, he would always boast about, boast about his net worth. And she says, yeah, but is that IGA money, right? Can I actually buy groceries with that type of deal? Right. There's a difference between cash flow, say, oh great. Yeah, you're, you're on paper, you're worth this, but you have no money.

DAN: Yeah. You know, to do anything. Right. So, uh, but I like, I think a lot of business. Go through that until you recognize the difference and are able to, to be strategic about, about being careful about that and then capitalizing on what needs to do. So I think the Profit First book from my Mike Mcal, which I think is a, is a really good read on that part.

DAN: So definitely. Yeah. Yeah. I laugh when I saw that, that that was, yeah. Good stuff. So, no, this is good. Uh, Griffin. Thank you.

GRIFFIN: thanks so much for having me.

DAN: Yeah. So, um, yeah, it is great to have you on. Uh, obviously we're, we're happy we've been working together and you've been, it's so funny, we just, before the podcast I was like, oh, you do this?

DAN: And you're like, yeah, we got three jobs with you. Because I'm like, oh, I didn't know. So, so I'm like, this just goes, shows how the team is good. Exactly. Obviously they had, they had jobs. I didn't even know that they were, that we were dealing through at your services, so that's awesome.

GRIFFIN: clockwork. Yeah,

DAN: yeah, yeah.

DAN: Clock clockwork. Exactly. So, uh, so anybody who wants to reach out to you, uh, I think the, the best, uh, its website is get cozy.ca. Is that, is that accurate? That's it, yeah. Yeah. And you mentioned, uh, at the beginning, cozy landscaping, there may be Yeah. An evolution to

GRIFFIN: yeah. Rebranding more as just cozy and, and cozy group.

GRIFFIN: Okay. Um, we had, uh, yeah. When we started doing the renovations and we were still cozy landscaping, uh, we heard, uh, someone comment like, you know, why is the landscaping company Yeah. Uh, you know, going and, and doing a renovation in your basement. So, uh, yeah, we, we knew the, the name change had to happen. you. Yeah. Good for

DAN: you. Yeah. We did a similar thing where Dory, Dory property Management. In many of the logos, we remove property management because we're involved in sales and development and, and all these good things. So it's not just property management. Yeah. So, uh, yeah, I understand the, uh, the evolution.

DAN: So good for you. Exactly. Um, any, any, any social media links that you wanna share that for people to reach out, if ever they have, uh, they wanna learn more about you?

GRIFFIN: Instagram, uh, is Kozy group, and then Facebook is Yeah. Kozy group as well. Okay. So, uh, that's group. Okay. Yeah, we're starting to pick that up again. I, I think, I'm not huge on Instagram personally, but, uh, uh, for the business it's nice to young people to be able to see what we're doing

GRIFFIN: Yeah, I know. I think it's, it's awesome and there's so many, so much people that, that, that pay attention that I think, uh, and especially with landscaping, being able to show or even pull installation, the renovations, be able to show the, the pro the before and after.

GRIFFIN: Very visual.

DAN: is, uh, yeah. Good for you. Good for you. So, and to all the listeners, thanks for listening to another episode of the Dore Podcast. Don't for let, don't forget to like, subscribe, and turn on your notifications, and so you never miss another one of our conversations. So I am Dan Dore. Until the next time, have a good week.

DAN: Thank you.